Part Two
Anita Susuri: You wanted to talk about the miners’ case, if you could now explain how that all happened, how… when you heard the strike was happening at first, how did you feel?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes I know, back then, back then the miners’ strikes started…
Anita Susuri: First there was the march…
Avdi Dinaj: Yes…
Anita Susuri: And then they were interrogated.
Avdi Dinaj: Yes, there was a march, the walk to Pristina to voice political issues. And… you remember, they demanded the resignation of…
Anita Susuri: Rrahman Morina…
Avdi Dinaj: Hysamedin Azemi, and these other people. But, I watched those cases on TV at the time. But when the investigative procedure started I remember it like it was today… it was, if I am not mistaken, it was March 13, ‘89. After work, I went to my apartment. In the late hours of the night, the former head of the District Court Kapllan Baruti had sent his chauffeur to drive me with his car. I asked the chauffeur, I said, “What’s up?” He said, “The Head of the Court wants to see you.”
Kapllan was an extraordinary man, extraordinarily good. He invited me to his office. He said, “I am asking you to take on Vllasi’s case…” he told me this and that and how he is being brought in from Bijeljina, and that they want to start investigative procedures. The prosecutor had already filed the request to start the investigations. Counterrevolution, counterrevolution back then was the highest sentence, 20 years for counterrevolution or death sentence. I know that we discussed it with Kapllan, he said to me, “Please take over the investigation.” I said, “Kapllan, I don’t want this case to cost me my job. I will not take over. Until now I never investigated political cases, I don’t want to do it now.”
As the conversation progressed, he said, “If you don’t take it over, we have to give it to someone else and lose access to the case.” I know I said to him, “Give it to whomever you like, do whatever you like. Not me.” In order to change my mind, he called Tadej Rodiqi. While discussing with Tadej Rodiqi he said to me, he said, “It’s not by accident that we talked about taking you as an investigative judge.” And he told me his history. Among other things he said, “Avdi, in the case of Marie Shllaku, my brother was a prisoner together with Marie Shllaku. When he was released from prison, he only lived for three months because they destroyed him.” He said, “If we don’t put a stop to it this time, when do you think to, to, to…”
One request after the other to take on the case, I agreed to do the investigation. There was nothing you could do about detention because at the time with the law of criminal procedures, when it comes to criminal acts for which the death penalty is considered, detention was mandatory. I started the investigation, I took Azem Vllasi, Aziz Abrashi, and Burhan Kavaja into questioning. Then we broadened our scope of investigation. Fifteen of them were accused.”
Anita Susuri: What kind of questions did you ask them because the accusation was counterrevolution, but what was the foundation?
Avdi Dinaj: The foundation was those demonstrations. The foundation was the demonstrations, but it was known that it’s a political case, a euphoria of the moment, because they got released, you know?
[The interview was interrupted here]
Avdi Dinaj: At first the investigations started against Azem Vllasi, Aziz Abrashi and Burhan Kavaja. They were taken in for questioning in the capacity of defendants. The most eminent lawyers of the former Yugoslavia were engaged in that investigation. One of them was the late Bajram Kelmendi, a lawyer for whom there will hardly ever be a match in the Albanian territories. There was Rajko Danilović from Belgrade, Drago Demsar from Zagreb, Vesta Pesić from Slovenia. You know what? It was the elite of the lawyers from that time.
Anita Susuri: So why was it like that? Was this a really important event that…
Avdi Dinaj: Yes it was… actually it shook the core of Yugoslavia, as they used to say back then. And I interrogated Vllasi, I remember it like it was today… because a group of jurists sent from Belgrade worked for the prosecution team, I remember it like it was today. Besides having the support of my colleagues, I also had the Head of the Court, Kapllan Baruti, and Tadej Rodiqi, whom I consulted with. I even remember in one case during the interrogation we took a short coffee break. I was questioning Vllasi, he said, “I could use a coffee…”
Anita Susuri: Vllasi?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes. And I didn’t think twice about it and ordered him a coffee. I was young back then, I didn’t think of stuff like that. I ran into Kapllan in the corridor by chance, he asked, “So, are you taking a break?” I said, “Yes, we’ll get coffee.” He asked, “Did you order one for Vllasi too?” I said, “Yes, why not bre?” He said, “Wait.” He informed Tadej, just to… He said, “These coffees…” Back then the coffee cost 20 cents at court. He said, “These coffees are paid through the court’s account.” I said, “Why through their account?” “Leave it…” We got coffee, and when we wanted to continue, Spaso saw that Vllasi got coffee, and he asked to extend the break. That coffee became a very big deal, all the [court] bodies found out that he ordered a coffee in the office (smiles). This was considered… even though legally, the defendant had the right to a break, they have their rights which… But since it was a political group it was as if…
Anita Susuri: So what was it that they talked about, what kind of answers did they give you?
Avdi Dinaj: Well they talked about the events of the demonstrations back then. If they were… because Vllasi visited the miners in the cavern, and then they assumed that Vllasi, with Aziz Abrashi as a general director of Trepça, and Burhan Kavaja as a director of the mine with flotation Stari Trg, organized the workers to go on strike and to enclose themselves in the caverns. But they didn’t argue with evidence that there was some sort of organizing, it was the discontent as a result of the political circumstances of that time.
Anita Susuri: Did you realize that, or did you also suspect that maybe they have organized them [the miners]?
Avdi Dinaj: The role of the investigative judge is to record what they say, you understand?
Anita Susuri: Yes.
Avdi Dinaj: To be as accurate as possible about their statements.
Anita Susuri: You mentioned that during that time you were constantly followed.
Avdi Dinaj: Yes, since I took on the investigations, actually as soon as I left my apartment with my wife and children I noticed them, the State Security back then, their people followed my every step. For six months as long as I was working on the investigations, it was impossible to not be followed. Not only me, but also my other colleagues, especially the Head of the Court [Kapllan Baruti]. Also, I actually couldn’t say anything in my office because we suspected that they [State Security] had placed listening devices.
Anita Susuri: You also told me that you kept in touch [with people interested about the case] and that the meetings took place in Zhlep village?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes. But I never met the people that were interested in Mitrovica. I took my wife and children… The ones that wanted to, politicians, people from that time that wanted to talk with me about the case… I went there because during the summer our family went to the mountains. And I held the meetings there. There were people that were interested about the case and I informed them about every detail there.
Anita Susuri: What kind of details for example? About how the [investigative] procedure is going?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes.
Anita Susuri: And what were the [court] sessions held for these 15 people like?
Avdi Dinaj: There were no sessions, they were taken in for questioning one by one in the office, in the presence of lawyers. At first they gave their statements, and then, with the proposal of the prosecutor, they were asked to provide an explanation about the evidence. All the defendants chose silence, they didn’t give a statement. I only questioned the defendants, while the witnesses were questioned by the State Security. There was an appointed prosecutor, Rexhep Kaçaniku, who questioned them [the witnesses]. But there was no input by the investigative judge on the credibility of those witnesses. They called them [the witnesses] without the knowledge of… we were aware, but they called them without the input of the investigative judge.
I know when the trial started, the late Ismet Emra returned as Head of Court, he used to be presiding judge. During the hearing, the lawyers asked to single out the statements of the witnesses, even though there wasn’t anything important in these statements, they asked to single them out because the investigative judge didn’t believe them. They called me, they said, “You were the investigative judge, is there any decision to entrust you with the hearing of the witnesses from the [State] Security?” I said, “There isn’t.” They asked, “Why?” I said, “Because they didn’t request one and there isn’t one.” But, it was good luck. I remember when the verdict was announced, Nekibe Kelmendi was in my office, when they were released from jail. It was a pleasure when…
Anita Susuri: So you weren’t present in the courtroom?
Avdi Dinaj: No, I only did the investigations. I didn’t even have the right to be a member of the trial panel or judge the case.
Anita Susuri: Most of them, especially Burhan Kavaja, told us that they didn’t anticipate being released. So it was surprising for them.
Avdi Dinaj: They…
Anita Susuri: Did you also share these thoughts? What was your opinion about that, did you think they’d be sentenced or not?
Avdi Dinaj: In my opinion, every detail I didn’t know is clear to me. My opinion was that there is no evidence. There was no evidence because they took the testimonies of around 119 witnesses. Each and every time, those statements came to me first. There was no evidence. It’s something else when there’s no evidence.
Anita Susuri: When you did the investigations, do you remember the state these people were in? Were they scared or…?
Avdi Dinaj: Uff {onomatopoeia} they were concerned, they were concerned. They were… it was a gloomy time period for them as well because…
Anita Susuri: Do you have a specific example in mind that you would like to single out?
Avdi Dinaj: I remember like it was today, at the end of the investigations, Aziz Abrashi was not doing well and they asked me to go visit him in jail. I remember as if it was today, Spasoje and I went to visit them, both had asked us to visit them and we went straight from court to prison. The former prison ward was this guy Sherfedin Ajeti. Among other things, Spasoje said, “Should” he said, “Avdi pay a visit to prison during visitation hours,” as if my investigations have failed. Though he knew that his investigations failed, “and secure him a separate room [with the defendant]?” I said to him, “I don’t know, for me or for you?” Sherafedin Ajeti, said, “If he wins the case, of course Spasoje and I will need a separate room. If we win the case he will need a separate room.” And that was quite a bitter joke.
Then, we went in to talk to Aziz Abrashi. I managed to convince him that this is an investigative case, it’s a case about gathering evidence. “The evidence is gathered, there will be a review. Based on the existing evidence, a decision will be made in accordance. But, you don’t need to turn it into something tragic.” So when the trial started, and it was a prolonged trial, besides judging there were a lot of jokes during the judicial review.
Anita Susuri: What kind of jokes for example?
Avdi Dinaj: What kind of jokes? Well the lawyers of that time were the elite of lawyers. Since I didn’t directly witness it, I wasn’t present, other people who were told me, especially Adem Vokshi and Faruk Korenica who are alive. There’s also others, such as Xhafer Maliqi.
Anita Susuri: Did you meet [with any of the defendants] after there was a decision for these people, or how did it go?
Avdi Dinaj: I met Lazër Krasniqi after the verdict. I know because Lazër Krasniqi now lives somewhere in Otapia I think. He was the director of KEK. When I started questioning them before the prosecutor and the lawyers came, he said, “Judge, can I ask you something?” I said, “Go on?” He asked, “Is Kapllan Baruti aware that I am in jail?” I said, “Yes.” He said, “I don’t need to know anything else.”
After he got out of jail, when I met him later on, he showed respect. He told me, “Judge, I’m glad that I saw you.” I said, “I’m also glad that…” He said, “Judge, at the moment you started questioning me I knew what side you were on.” And I jokingly said, “Well, back then I wasn’t a good investigative judge, because the party can’t know what side an investigative judge is on, because the judge should be unbiased.”
Anita Susuri: Do you remember what the day when they were released was like, because people have told us that it was like a celebration?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes, there were celebrations like it was a national holiday. I remember it like it was today when they were released from jail, even Bajram came, Bajram Kelmendi came to my office and Nekibe was already there because she was my teacher in elementary school. We watched it through the window, the people gathered, how do I… Not even national holidays were celebrated more.
Anita Susuri: Did you see them coming out?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes, because the jail is beneath the court and they had to walk by the court windows {describes with hands} and to go to the main street.
Anita Susuri: What did they seem like to you? Were they happy?
Avdi Dinaj: Well look, getting freedom after around eight months, almost a year isn’t…
Anita Susuri: What were the ‘90s like after? The political situation worsened and the other demonstrations started. What were those years like for you? Until what time did you work as a judge?
Avdi Dinaj: I worked until the beginning of ‘92 when all the judges in Kosovo were fired by the Assembly of Serbia. Until that time I worked as a judge, and then I switched to a lawyer.
Anita Susuri: How did they fire you? Did you expect it?
Avdi Dinaj: It was expected, if not today, then tomorrow. We expected it since the [early] ‘90s, when was it going to happen. I know because the unions had a role back then. Especially Bajram Kelmendi, he came and told us, “You have to stay until they fire you.” And then they did, they fired all of the Albanians, they filled it with Serbs.
Anita Susuri: Did they bring other Serbian people or was it the ones you already worked with?
Avdi Dinaj: They were Serbian and Montenegrin staff here in Mitrovica. Two or three, one came from Čačak, a few others came from outside Mitrovica, the others were Mitrovicans.
Anita Susuri: How did the ‘90s go for you as a lawyer?
Avdi Dinaj: Well as a lawyer actually, the entire court was Serbian. We were (smiles) some of us, I had a case with about twelve defendants in the same date as the bombings, all free of charge, who [the defendants] were released after the NATO troops entered Kosovo. You had to be careful. We divided the cases, the ones of us working in law, some here, some there.
Anita Susuri: What was it like, I mean the beginning of the worsening of the situation and the beginning of war? What was that time like?
Avdi Dinaj: Well it was a gloomy time period. It was extraordinarily gloomy. For example, as soon as you finished work, you had to isolate yourself in your apartment. Anyways, you are young but there was Dora e Zezë, they just took specific people and eliminated them and left them on the street. As soon as it got dark, you had to enclose yourself in your apartment until the next day.
Anita Susuri: Did you feel yourself at risk?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes, of course. Not only me, but all of my colleagues felt themselves at risk. I remember it like it was today, I had a trial with Shyqri Syla, a political case, and we told them [clients] to remain silent, to not give any statements and as soon as we finished the session I told Shyqri, “Don’t go to the office because the situation is bad.” I went to my apartment immediately after court, because my apartment was on the northern side [of Mitrovica]. I remember it like it was today, as soon as he went to his office to leave his briefcase, the police jumped him and… {describes with hands} the case was even reported for the violence against him.
Anita Susuri: Were you here during the war?
Avdi Dinaj: I wasn’t here during the war. My brother-in-law had a lodge near Ribariq, we went to spend the weekend there two or three days before the bombings. When the bombings started, you couldn’t get in or out of those lodges anymore. Then, I took my child and we left around April 8 [1999]. We crossed the border to Montenegro with a lot of difficulties. I stayed in Ulcinj until the NATO troops entered Kosovo.
Anita Susuri: What was the journey to Montenegro like?
Avdi Dinaj: Well, it was very difficult because where we were near Ribariq, the lodges were about two or three kilometers close, we couldn’t get in or out. We remained there until April 8 because we couldn’t enter or leave. Then we had a neighbor, we got on our way to Novi Pazar. There’s an access road. We went to Tutin [town in Serbia], there’s an access road that takes you to Rožaje [town in Montenegro], not the highway, but another road where there were no police and we got to Rožaje. From Rožaje, when we entered Rožaje it was something else and then we continued to Ulcinj, and I remained there till my return.
Anita Susuri: How did you take the news that Kosovo was liberated, that the war was over?
Avdi Dinaj: It was, freedom is coming. Is there anything more valuable?
Anita Susuri: How did you decide to return? In what state did you find your apartment?
Avdi Dinaj: I returned with the first line [of cars] that came from Ulcinj, it was June 23 of ‘99. Since the political situation in Montenegro was agitated. The police authorities of Montenegro, the line of Kosovo Albanians that were in Ulcinj became about three kilometers long. They didn’t let us go alone. The police were behind, the line of cars stretched until the Tower in Zhlep [village in Kosovo] and the Montenegrin police followed us.
Anita Susuri: And then when you arrived here?
Avdi Dinaj: When we arrived here…
Anita Susuri: First of all, what did Kosovo look like on your way to Mitrovica?
Avdi Dinaj: Well, everything was destroyed, every object was destroyed. My apartment was on the northern side. When I [went there], there were French troops. I didn’t have another apartment. Then I had to stay over at my in-laws for some time until I made a solution about my apartment, that’s it.
Anita Susuri: So, you could never return to your apartment?
Avdi Dinaj: Later you could only watch the apartment, but what was there to see. The apartment door was broken, all my stuff and books were stolen. I had an extraordinary professional collection of textbooks. Everything was taken, the furniture, it was demolished. And then Serbs settled in my apartment in the northern part and I couldn’t use it anymore.
Anita Susuri: Now you found a solution right?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes I did find a solution.
Anita Susuri: You mentioned that you started working as a judge in 2000. How did that happen? How did you make the decision or did they call you?
Avdi Dinaj: Back then, at first, some emergency courts were formed in September which worked only with criminal cases and then I made a request at the beginning of 2000 and was chosen as a judge of the District Court. I worked until 2002. And then I applied to become a judge of the Supreme Court. In November of 2002 I was chosen a judge of the Supreme Court. I started working on January 11, 2003, I worked as a judge in the Supreme Court until my retirement in 2017.
Anita Susuri: What is life like now? You have a pension now right?
Avdi Dinaj: Yes, now I have a pension. I opened a law firm together with my son and daughter-in-law, all three of us are lawyers. We’re living (smiles).
Anita Susuri: If there is anything you’d like to add or tell us about anything we didn’t ask you about and you’d like to explain?
Avdi Dinaj: Well I wouldn’t add anything more.
[The interview was interrupted here]
Korab Krasniqi: Mister Avdi I’ll take you back in time just a little in ‘89 again. So, in ‘88 there was the march of miners from Stantërg to Pristina.
Avdi Dinaj: Yes.
Korab Krasniqi: And then on February 20 the miners’ strike began.
Avdi Dinaj: Yes.
Korab Krasniqi: And then some time around October or November of ‘89, I think it was October 7, I think there was a second strike inside the cavern. It was a smaller group of miners that isolated themselves for a shorter period of time, I think for four days. But, this was a little tougher, more violent and when the partakers of this strike were brought in, when they were interrogated, for example the case of mister [Ramadan] Gjeloshi; He said that it was quite violent, quite difficult. Do you remember anything from this case?
Avdi Dinaj: No, I didn’t deal with that case.
Korab Krasniqi: Did your colleagues tell you anything about it?
Avdi Dinaj: Look, they did, but I wouldn’t like to interpret my colleagues’ words.
Anita Susuri: Yes.
Avdi Dinaj: It’s not adequate, it’s not original.
Anita Susuri: Alright. Thank you for the interview and sharing your story.
Avdi Dinaj: I hope it came out well (smiles).
